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A Bit of Optimism with Simon Sinek

A Bit of Optimism

An inspiring podcast with Simon Sinek.

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Join me as I talk with people that inspire me about love, life, leadership, and silver linings. The hope is that we all leave with something I think we need these days… A Bit of Optimism.

Thanks for listening.

—Simon

Harville Hendrix

Season 6 · Episode 20

Why We Fall for the Wrong Person | Couples Therapist Dr. Harville Hendrix

Maybe this sounds familiar: you fall hard for someone, and over a year later you're fighting about the very things that drew you to them in the first place. And you can't figure out how the person who felt so right suddenly feels so wrong. Dr. Harville Hendrix has spent 50 years studying love. And he’s also lived through its hardest challenges: one divorce, two near-misses in his current marriage, and a couple’s therapist who fired him and his wife, calling them "the couple from hell." That marriage is now 45 years strong. Harville is a couples therapist, and alongside his wife and creative partner Dr. Helen LaKelly Hunt, they creator Imago Relationship Therapy. They’ve also written 10 books, including the bestseller *Getting the Love You Want,* the book that made him a fixture on Oprah for nearly two decades. Harville’s theory is this: we don't consciously choose who we fall for, rather our unconscious does. And it has an agenda. In this episode you'll learn: ➡️ Why you keep falling for the same person ➡️ What your childhood has to do with who you swipe right on ➡️ Why the "power struggle" phase might mean you picked the right person ➡️ The shift that saved Harville's own marriage after divorce papers were filed ➡️ Why some of us can't receive love (even when we ask for it) ➡️ What arranged marriages understood about commitment that we forgot ➡️ The difference between equal relationships and egalitarian ones ➡️ How to reach the stage where you have no needs left… only wants In this conversation, Harville makes the case that real romantic love is what gets built after the fantasy collapses, when two people commit to the work of meeting each other's needs instead of demanding their own. And the engine of that transformation goes beyond compatibility and chemistry—it's gratitude and service. This… is *A Bit of Optimism*. \+ + + Want to keep up with Harville’s work? Check out: [https://harvilleandhelen.com/](https://harvilleandhelen.com/) If you’d like to buy Harville & Helen’s latest book, *How to Talk with Anyone about Anything*, head to: [https://harvilleandhelen.com/books/how-to-talk-with-anyone-about-anything/](https://harvilleandhelen.com/books/how-to-talk-with-anyone-about-anything/) \+ + + Chapters ### Chapters - **00:00:00** Nature's Agenda: Why We Fall for the Wrong Person - **00:02:02** From Sharecropper's Farm to Oprah: Harville's Unexpected Journey - **00:06:07** The 30-Second Encounters That Changed Everything - **00:10:17** We Almost Divorced Twice: The Couple From Hell - **00:13:21** Child Consciousness vs Adult Consciousness: The Critical Shift - **00:15:57** The Gratitude That Ends the Yearning - **00:18:45** Why Both People Don't Need to Change at Once - **00:20:28** The Unconscious Imago: Your Brain Picks Who You Fall For - **00:26:34** The 18-Month Fantasy: When the Real Person Shows Up - **00:30:40** Arranged Marriages vs Choice: The Paradox of Commitment - **00:34:47** The No Exit Decision: Why You'll Want to Quit When It's Working - **00:36:34** The Transparency Trap: Afraid of Losing What You Found - **00:38:35** Receiving Love: The Dinner Story That Changes Everything - **00:45:49** Equal vs Egalitarian: The Recipe for Partnership - **00:47:23** Dating IRL: Why Technology Can't Replace Face-to-Face - **00:50:54** When Needs Become Wants: Life After Gratitude \+ + + Simon is an unshakable optimist. He believes in a bright future and our ability to build it together. Described as “a visionary thinker with a rare intellect,” Simon has devoted his professional life to help advance a vision of the world that does not yet exist; a world in which the vast majority of people wake up every single morning inspired, feel safe wherever they are and end the day fulfilled by the work that they do. Simon is the author of multiple best-selling books including *Start With Why*, *Leaders Eat Last*, *Together is Better*, and *The Infinite Game*. \+ + + Website: [http://simonsinek.com/](http://simonsinek.com/) Leaderful: https://simonsinek.com/leaderful Podcast: [http://apple.co/simonsinek](http://apple.co/simonsinek) Instagram: [https://instagram.com/simonsinek/](https://instagram.com/simonsinek/) Linkedin: [https://linkedin.com/in/simonsinek/](https://linkedin.com/in/simonsinek/) Twitter: [https://twitter.com/simonsinek](https://twitter.com/simonsinek) Facebook: [https://www.facebook.com/simonsinek](https://www.facebook.com/simonsinek)

July 7, 2026 54 min
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Nelly Attar

Season 6 · Episode 19

How to Tell If Fear Is Protecting You or Holding You Back with Extreme Athlete Nelly Attar

We tell ourselves the reason we never chase the big dream is that we're not ready, not brave enough, doomed to fail. Nelly Attar would tell you she felt all of that too… but she chased them anyway. Nelly is a psychologist turned extreme athlete and mountaineer. She built Saudi Arabia's first dance studio, MOVE, at a time when women couldn't train publicly by sneaking classes into a warehouse and office building after hours. She's the first Lebanese person to climb the five highest peaks in the world, like Everest. And she also became the first Arab to summit K2, the world’s second highest peak that’s so dangerous that one in four people who attempt it survive. But what makes Nelly remarkable aren’t the summits and heights she reaches. It's that she's found a way to turn individual acts of accomplishment into acts of service: for the women she shows what's possible and for the team that climbs beside her. In this episode you'll learn: ➡️ The difference between fear that protects you and fear that holds you back ➡️ How preparing and working hard can lighten the load for others ➡️ What small, daily kindness practices become the best investment you can make ➡️ Why there's no such thing as "self-made" and what actually de-risks courage ➡️ The art of “strategic retreat” + why quitting and retreating aren't the same thing ➡️ Why your title and achievements aren’t your identity (and what is) ➡️ How movement is medicine, and why the mind leads the body ➡️ What it really means to live a life of service to the people right in front of you In this conversation, Nelly shows that the size of what you accomplish matters far less than the spirit you bring to it. She faces her fear for herself, but she does the hard work for everyone else.  This… is *A Bit of Optimism*. \+ + + Want to keep up with Nelly’s adventures? Check out: [https://www.nellyattar.com/](https://www.nellyattar.com/)  \+ + + Chapters ### Chapters - **00:00:00** If You Don't Try, You'll Never Know: Nellie's Philosophy on Fear - **00:02:20** Building Saudi Arabia's First Dance Studio - **00:07:45** The Real Risk Worth Taking: Purpose Over Fear - **00:12:07** The Support System Behind Every Bold Move - **00:14:11** From Dance Floor to Everest: Training in the Desert for Sub-Zero Summits - **00:20:13** Climbing for Others: The Service Mindset on the Mountain - **00:21:19** Preparing So You Don't Burden Your Team - **00:26:11** The Practice of Kindness: Small Acts That Change Everything - **00:33:02** Leading Hikes to Help Others Climb Their Mountains - **00:36:17** K2: Climbing Through Grief After Losing Her Father - **00:39:24** One in Four Don't Come Back: The Reality of K2 - **00:41:00** Strategic Retreat: Knowing When to Turn Around - **00:43:59** The Infinite Mindset: You Are Not Your Accomplishments - **00:45:44** Creating Safe Spaces for Others to Discover Their Boundaries - **00:48:39** Fear That Protects vs Fear That Holds You Back \+ + + Simon is an unshakable optimist. He believes in a bright future and our ability to build it together. Described as “a visionary thinker with a rare intellect,” Simon has devoted his professional life to help advance a vision of the world that does not yet exist; a world in which the vast majority of people wake up every single morning inspired, feel safe wherever they are and end the day fulfilled by the work that they do. Simon is the author of multiple best-selling books including *Start With Why*, *Leaders Eat Last*, *Together is Better*, and *The Infinite Game*. \+ + + Website: [http://simonsinek.com/](http://simonsinek.com/) Leaderful: https://simonsinek.com/leaderful Podcast: [http://apple.co/simonsinek](http://apple.co/simonsinek) Instagram: [https://instagram.com/simonsinek/](https://instagram.com/simonsinek/) Linkedin: [https://linkedin.com/in/simonsinek/](https://linkedin.com/in/simonsinek/) Twitter: [https://twitter.com/simonsinek](https://twitter.com/simonsinek) Facebook: [https://www.facebook.com/simonsinek](https://www.facebook.com/simonsinek)

June 30, 2026 51 min
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Bob Chapman

Season 6 · Episode 18

Remembering Bob Chapman: The Mentor Who Changed My Life

Sixteen years ago, an unknown CEO running a manufacturing company in the Midwest saw my TED Talk and recognized something in it. He sent me a letter and we made plans to meet. What started as a one-hour lunch turned into three, then four days touring factories together across the Midwest, and an idea I had only imagined turned out to already exist in reality. That CEO was Bob Chapman. Over five decades, Bob grew an unassuming manufacturing company in the Midwest into a global proof point that leadership grounded in humanity can scale and outperform. Bob saw the people in his company as human beings in his care, people he felt responsible to help become healthy, fulfilled, and whole. His belief was simple and profound: when people are cared for at work, they build happier families, stronger communities, and a better world. He called it Truly Human Leadership.  In the years that followed, Bob became something more: a mentor, a close friend, the central figure in my book *Leaders Eat Last,* and one of the people who shaped how I think about leadership itself. In September 2025, I returned to one of Bob's factories in Phillips, Wisconsin, with a camera crew, to capture Bob's incredible legacy in his own words. Six months later, Bob passed away. As a tribute to this great man, we're releasing the full conversation, in its entirety, for the first time. In this episode you'll learn: ➡️ Why Bob believed in seeing every person as someone’s precious child  ➡️ How Barry-Wehmiller rewrote the rules and ➡️ The university Bob built to teach his employees skills they were never taught ➡️ What impact a caring workplace can have on an employees life ➡️ The real difference between a prosperous company and a healthy one ➡️ Why Bob believed layoffs meant your business has failed ➡️ Why the greatest act of charity has nothing to do with the checks you write ➡️ What changed in Bob over the fifteen years Simon knew him ➡️ The letter Simon sent Bob years ago that ended up framed on his office wall As Bob said, "You can retire from a job, but you can't retire from a calling." He never did. This conversation is a chance to hear why, in his own words. This… is *A Bit of Optimism.* \+ + + To buy Bob’s book, *Everybody Matters*, head to: [https://simonsinek.com/optimism-press/everybody-matters](https://simonsinek.com/optimism-press/everybody-matters)  To read about Bob in my book, *Leaders Eat Last*, head to: [https://simonsinek.com/books/leaders-eat-last](https://simonsinek.com/books/leaders-eat-last)  \+ + + Chapters ### Chapters - **00:00:00** The Letter That Changed Everything: Meeting Bob Chapman - **00:05:23** Bob's Revelation: Seeing People as Somebody's Precious Child - **00:08:05** Building a University to Teach Caring: The Three Transformative Classes - **00:09:32** The Healing Power of Listening: Why 95% of Feedback Was About Marriage and Kids - **00:16:42** Recognition Done Right: Catching People Doing Good - **00:20:55** The 2008 Recession Test: Shared Sacrifice Over Layoffs - **00:23:07** "Layoffs Means Your Business Has Failed" - **00:26:02** You Don't Need to Justify Caring: Safety of the Soul - **00:27:53** 12% Compound Growth for 25 Years: The Business Case for Humanity - **00:29:53** "Our Product Is Our People" - **00:34:55** From Selfish to Servant: Simon's Challenge That Sparked a Movement - **00:36:26** People's Universal Truth: They Want to Know They Matter - **00:38:00** Bob Has Gotten Softer: The Personal Evolution of a Leader - **00:40:00** You Cannot Retire From a Calling: Carrying a Message That Heals - **00:43:10** Heart Counts, Not Head Counts: The Language of Humanization - **00:46:01** The Greatest Act of Charity: How You Treat People You Lead - **00:49:38** The Promise: Carrying the Torch for Generations to Come \+ + + Simon is an unshakable optimist. He believes in a bright future and our ability to build it together. Described as “a visionary thinker with a rare intellect,” Simon has devoted his professional life to help advance a vision of the world that does not yet exist; a world in which the vast majority of people wake up every single morning inspired, feel safe wherever they are and end the day fulfilled by the work that they do. Simon is the author of multiple best-selling books including *Start With Why*, *Leaders Eat Last*, *Together is Better*, and *The Infinite Game*. \+ + + Website: [http://simonsinek.com/](http://simonsinek.com/) Leaderful: [https://simonsinek.com/leaderful](https://simonsinek.com/leaderful) Podcast: [http://apple.co/simonsinek](http://apple.co/simonsinek) Instagram: [https://instagram.com/simonsinek/](https://instagram.com/simonsinek/) Linkedin: [https://linkedin.com/in/simonsinek/](https://linkedin.com/in/simonsinek/) Twitter: [https://twitter.com/simonsinek](https://twitter.com/simonsinek) Facebook: [https://www.facebook.com/simonsinek](https://www.facebook.com/simonsinek)

June 23, 2026 52 min
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Ethan Mollick

Season 6 · Episode 17

The AI Skills Nobody is Teaching (And Everyone Needs) with AI Expert Ethan Mollick

Be honest: AI makes you a little nervous. Maybe you're afraid it'll take your job. Maybe you're overwhelmed by all the advice about prompts and agents and which chatbot to use. Or maybe you're just quietly hoping it'll all slow down.  Ethan Mollick says we're underestimating our own agency in the age of AI. Instead of worrying about what AI will do to us, we should focus on what we choose to do with it. Ethan is a Wharton professor, the author of the bestseller *Co-Intelligence: Living and Working with AI*, and the writer behind “One Useful Thing,” one of the most popular newsletters on AI, work, and education. He's spent twenty years studying how people actually use technology, and he's become the go-to voice for making sense of AI without the hype or the doom. And in his new book, *Co-Existence: The Next Phase of AI*, he explores what comes next as AI moves from a tool we prompt to a presence we live and work alongside. In this conversation, Ethan shares the practical playbook most of us are missing and makes the case that our experience, taste, and point of view aren't things AI replaces. They're exactly what make us better at using it. In this episode you'll learn:  ➡️ Why young people are NOT "AI natives" (and why experience is the real AI advantage)  ➡️ The $20 decision that instantly upgrades how you use AI  ➡️ Why AI agrees with everything you say + the simple prompt that fixes it  ➡️ How to make AI write in YOUR voice instead of sounding like everyone else  ➡️ The "jagged frontier": what AI is surprisingly bad at (and why that's your opportunity)  ➡️ Why taste may become the most valuable skill of the AI era  ➡️ How much agency we really have over where AI takes us Ethan believes that the future of AI isn't something that will just happen to us… It's something we get to build together. This… is *A Bit of Optimism*. \+ + + To pre-order Ethan’s new book, *Co-Existence: The Next Phase of AI*, head to: [https://co-existence.ai/](https://co-existence.ai/)  Want to hear more from Ethan? Check out his Substack “One Useful Thing”: [https://www.oneusefulthing.org/](https://www.oneusefulthing.org/)  \+ + + Chapters ### Chapters - **00:00:00** Why are AI Experts Are Either Doomers or Zealots? - **00:02:05** From Video Games to AI: Ethan's Unexpected Journey - **00:09:16** AI's Profound Impact on Knowledge Workers - **00:14:50** How AI Kills Traditional Talent Pipelines - **00:15:57** Why AI Art Doesn't Bother Me, But I'd Never Hang It on My Wall - **00:20:40** How To Overcome AI's Complication of Competitive Edge - **00:22:06** The 20 Dollar Investment That Changes Everything - **00:24:40** The 84 Percent Rule: Why AI Can Now Do Your Seven-Hour Job in 15 Minutes - **00:25:59** Your Voice Matters More Than You Think: Why AI Can't Replace Taste - **00:19:53** The Discomfort-Avoidant Generation Meets the Efficiency Machine - **00:13:08** Why Young People Are Worse at Using AI - **00:43:35** The Brain We're Sacrificing: From Phone Numbers to Critical Thinking - **00:51:39** Two Prompts That Will Transform How You Use AI - **00:52:58** How to Use AI As Co-Intelligence - **00:54:57** The Agency You Have Right Now: It's Not About Policy, It's About How You Use It \+ + + Simon is an unshakable optimist. He believes in a bright future and our ability to build it together. Described as “a visionary thinker with a rare intellect,” Simon has devoted his professional life to help advance a vision of the world that does not yet exist; a world in which the vast majority of people wake up every single morning inspired, feel safe wherever they are and end the day fulfilled by the work that they do. Simon is the author of multiple best-selling books including *Start With Why*, *Leaders Eat Last*, *Together is Better*, and *The Infinite Game*. \+ + + Website: [http://simonsinek.com/](http://simonsinek.com/) Leaderful: [https://simonsinek.com/leaderful](https://simonsinek.com/leaderful) Podcast: [http://apple.co/simonsinek](http://apple.co/simonsinek) Instagram: [https://instagram.com/simonsinek/](https://instagram.com/simonsinek/) Linkedin: [https://linkedin.com/in/simonsinek/](https://linkedin.com/in/simonsinek/) Twitter: [https://twitter.com/simonsinek](https://twitter.com/simonsinek) Facebook: [https://www.facebook.com/simonsinek](https://www.facebook.com/simonsinek)

June 16, 2026 59 min
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Tim Harris

Episode 227

What Happens When You Stop Optimizing and Start Committing with Former LA Lakers President Tim Harris

In a world of job-hopping, side hustles, and an endless LinkedIn feed, Tim Harris did something almost no one does anymore. He stayed put. Few executives spend an entire career helping build a dynasty. Tim Harris spent 35 years with the Los Angeles Lakers, rising to President of Business Operations and helping transform the franchise into a global brand. Through championship eras, iconic athletes like Kobe Bryant and LeBron James, and decades of change in professional sports, Tim's influence was felt not on the hardwood, but in the culture, leadership, and business excellence that powered one of the NBA's most storied organizations. In this episode you'll learn: ➡️ Why clarity of role is the most underrated tool in any leader's arsenal ➡️ The three unspoken words that silently destroy any team  ➡️ What Kobe Bryant taught Tim about mindset (+ why it matters off the court) ➡️ How the Lakers built one of the most powerful brands in sports ➡️ What elite athletes do differently + how it translates directly to business  ➡️ What caring, high-performing leadership actually looks like  ➡️ Why giving away free tickets to strangers was a brilliant + caring business decision ➡️ The cost of short-termism + what we lose when we stop playing the long game Even a brand as iconic as the Lakers wasn't built by championships alone. Tim says its foundation was built one small, genuine human moment at a time.  This… is *A Bit of Optimism*. \+ + + Chapters ### Chapters - **00:00:00** You Have to Love Them in Order to Win - **00:01:54** Why Tim Stayed 35 Years With One Company - **00:04:30** From Soccer Player to Lakers President: Tim's Unlikely Journey - **00:07:54** Coaching as Leadership: Don't Play on the Field - **00:09:39** The Long Game vs Day Trading Success - **00:11:00** The Underrated Tool of Clarity of Role - **00:13:29** Kobe's Compartmentalization: Nice Guy Off Court, Competitor On Court - **00:15:19** The Mental Game: What Separates Elite Athletes From Everyone Else - **00:22:08** The Three Unspoken Words That Ruin Any Team - **00:24:16** Meeting People Where They Are - **00:36:45** Caught You Being a Laker: Empowering Employees to Create Magic - **00:30:31** The Empty Seat Philosophy: Turning Sunk Costs Into Memories - **00:31:35** Building Brands One Tiny Act at a Time - **00:38:42** Remember That Business Is Always Human - **00:42:04** The Jenga Theory: Every Interaction Either Builds or Destroys Your Brand - **00:46:31** Caring Structure: What People Actually Crave at Work - **00:47:26** Never Miss Your Kid's Game: The Accountability Agreement - **00:50:09** Learning From Legends: Phil Jackson and the Human-First Philosophy - **00:48:48** The Work Happens in the Dark: What Made Kobe and LeBron Great - **00:50:56** Stop and Look at the Joy: Championship Lessons and Kobe's Legacy \+ + + Credits **Footage:** NBA Entertainment **Photos:** [http://bit.ly/43Fb37Z](http://bit.ly/43Fb37Z) (Full List) \+ + + Simon is an unshakable optimist. He believes in a bright future and our ability to build it together. Described as “a visionary thinker with a rare intellect,” Simon has devoted his professional life to help advance a vision of the world that does not yet exist; a world in which the vast majority of people wake up every single morning inspired, feel safe wherever they are and end the day fulfilled by the work that they do. Simon is the author of multiple best-selling books including *Start With Why*, *Leaders Eat Last*, *Together is Better*, and *The Infinite Game*. \+ + + Website: [http://simonsinek.com/](http://simonsinek.com/) Leaderful: [https://simonsinek.com/leaderful](https://simonsinek.com/leaderful) Podcast: [http://apple.co/simonsinek](http://apple.co/simonsinek) Instagram: [https://instagram.com/simonsinek/](https://instagram.com/simonsinek/) Linkedin: [https://linkedin.com/in/simonsinek/](https://linkedin.com/in/simonsinek/) Twitter: [https://twitter.com/simonsinek](https://twitter.com/simonsinek) Facebook: [https://www.facebook.com/simonsinek](https://www.facebook.com/simonsinek)

June 2, 2026 57 min
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Revisited: Choose Your Seven Humans Wisely with Author Fredrik Backman

Episode 226

Revisited: Choose Your Seven Humans Wisely with Author Fredrik Backman

Hello from Team Simon! We're taking a quick break this week and will be back with brand-new episodes of *A Bit of Optimism* next Tuesday.  Until then, we're revisiting one of our favorite episodes — when bestselling novelist Fredrik Backman joined the show to talk about the thing he's spent his whole career writing about: the quiet, radical power of showing up for people. And Fredrik says great friendships aren't found by luck. They're built deliberately, repeatedly, and, sometimes, inconveniently by people who choose to do the work. Fredrik is the internationally bestselling author of *A Man Called Ove* (adapted into the film *A Man Called Otto*), *Anxious People*, and the *Beartown* series. His book, *My Friends*, is a love letter to the relationships that quietly shape who we become. In this conversation, Fredrik opens up about his best friend of over 30 years and what 30 years of real friendship actually requires. His words will have you thinking hard about the friends you might be taking for granted. In this episode you'll learn:  ➡️ Why great friendship is a skill + what the work actually looks like  ➡️ The concept of your "people” vs. “humans"  ➡️ Why your friends are your best editors ➡️ The friendship rule that changed how Fredrik's entire friend group thought about relationships ➡️ The unexpected value of quantity of time vs. quality of time  ➡️ How to be genuinely happy for someone else  ➡️ The difference between healthy self-deprecation and low self-esteem  ➡️ Why the work in a relationship is never solely on the relationship — it's always on you A great relationship isn't a stroke of luck. It's a choice you make every day, in small ways, often when it's inconvenient. This conversation is a reminder of why it's worth it. This… is A Bit of Optimism. \+ + + To buy Fredrik’s book, *My Friends*, visit: [https://www.simonandschuster.com/authors/Fredrik-Backman/411545926](https://www.simonandschuster.com/authors/Fredrik-Backman/411545926)  \+ + + Chapters ### Chapters - **00:00:00** We Don't Need Algorithms to Find Our People - **00:02:45** Fredrik's Viral Speech: Fueled by Pure Panic - **00:05:55** The Power of Authenticity: Why Imperfection Resonates - **00:07:29** Choose Your Seven Humans Wisely - **00:08:56** The Friend Who Taught Him Everything - **00:15:43** Quality Time vs Quantity Time: The ROI of Presence - **00:17:53** The "I Want To," Not "I Have To" Philosophy - **00:20:55** Your Friends Are Your Best Editors - **00:13:23** Writing as Self-Editing - **00:15:06** Learning to Be Happy for Others - **00:22:41** The Gift of Time: Showing Up When It Matters - **00:23:56** Be A Great Friend, Get Great Friends - **00:28:55** The Work Is On You: Relationships and Self-Growth - **00:36:23** Algorithms Would Never Match Us: The Value of Difference - **00:34:21** Trying Is Everything - **00:35:55** People vs Humans - **00:37:18** Self-Deprecation vs Low Self-Esteem - **00:39:22** The Jantelagen: Swedish Humility Law - **00:45:26** The Fear of Disappointing People - **00:48:00** Expectations vs Reality: Letting Go of Fantasy - **00:49:00** Understanding Bullies: Finding What We Have in Common - **00:51:21** Fighting Narcissism: Surrounding Yourself With Better People - **00:52:08** Being Comfortable Not Knowing: The Gateway to Learning - **00:55:28** The World's Best Cardamom Bun Debate \+ + + Simon is an unshakable optimist. He believes in a bright future and our ability to build it together. Described as “a visionary thinker with a rare intellect,” Simon has devoted his professional life to help advance a vision of the world that does not yet exist; a world in which the vast majority of people wake up every single morning inspired, feel safe wherever they are and end the day fulfilled by the work that they do. Simon is the author of multiple best-selling books including *Start With Why*, *Leaders Eat Last*, *Together is Better*, and *The Infinite Game*. \+ + + Website: [http://simonsinek.com/](http://simonsinek.com/) Leaderful: [https://simonsinek.com/leaderful](https://simonsinek.com/leaderful) Podcast: [http://apple.co/simonsinek](http://apple.co/simonsinek) Instagram: [https://instagram.com/simonsinek/](https://instagram.com/simonsinek/) Linkedin: [https://linkedin.com/in/simonsinek/](https://linkedin.com/in/simonsinek/) Twitter: [https://twitter.com/simonsinek](https://twitter.com/simonsinek) Facebook: [https://www.facebook.com/simonsinek](https://www.facebook.com/simonsinek)

May 26, 2026 58 min
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Vanessa Van Edwards

Episode 225

How to Stop Being Socially Awkward (According to Science) with Behavioral Scientist Vanessa Van Edwards

Maybe this sounds familiar: you leave a party and spend the rest of the night convinced everyone was upset with you. Or you replay something you said in a meeting for days and second-guess every last word. Vanessa Van Edwards has been there. As a self-proclaimed "recovering awkward person," she’s spent two decades decoding the hidden dynamics of human interaction to make those skills teachable for introverts and extroverts alike. Vanessa is a behavioral researcher, bestselling author, and founder of Science of People. In her book, *Conversation: How to Be Instantly Likeable in Any Interaction*, she makes the case that social skills aren't a personality type, they're learnable. And she believes we are living in the most critical moment in history to *start* learning them. In this episode you'll learn: ➡️ Why "just be yourself" is unhelpful advice + potentially cruel ➡️ The important everyday interactions technology + AI replaced ➡️ Where to stand at a party so someone always talks to you ➡️ How to have better conversations (+ why you already have the skills) ➡️ What the real antidote to awkwardness is ➡️ How to practice micro-social skills without turning people off ➡️ Why we’re all ambiverts + how to understand ambiversion ➡️ How soft skills drive major career inflection points ➡️ The concept of social fitness + the “nutrition” of your relationships In this conversation, Vanessa lays out how even the most socially anxious among us can build real connections and become more likable… even in a world that has quietly removed all the places we used to accidentally get good at being human. And the secret isn't confidence. It's something far more generous. This… is *A Bit of Optimism*. \+ + + Watch *A Bit of Optimism* on Spotify, and Spotify Premium users can enjoy the show ad-free. \+ + + To pre-order Vanessa’s new book, *Conversation: How to Be Instantly Likeable in Any Interaction*, head to: [https://www.scienceofpeople.com/conversation/](https://www.scienceofpeople.com/conversation/) Want to learn more people skills from Vanessa? Check out The Science of People: [https://www.scienceofpeople.com/](https://www.scienceofpeople.com/) \+ + + Chapters ### Chapters - **00:00:00** Social Skills in the Digital Age Crisis - **00:01:47** Vanessa's Journey: The Accidental Social Skills Expert - **00:05:45** Mistakes Everyone Makes Learning to Improve Social Skills - **00:08:09** Where Did Our Places to Practice Being Human Go? - **00:11:17** Where to Stand at a Party When You Don't Know Anyone - **00:14:17** The Ambivert Reality: Social Fitness and Friendship Nutrition - **00:18:07** The Discomfort Problem: Why Young People Avoid Rather Than Adapt - **00:21:33** Put the Shoes in the Box: The Art of Knowing When to Stop - **00:34:54** Intention Matches Action: Defining Authenticity - **00:46:56** The Power of Being Seen: How Love Changed Everything - **00:49:51** The Ultimate Social Skill: Helping Others Feel Normal - **00:42:20** Micro-Social Skills: Finding the Parts of Yourself You Like \+ + + Simon is an unshakable optimist. He believes in a bright future and our ability to build it together. Described as “a visionary thinker with a rare intellect,” Simon has devoted his professional life to help advance a vision of the world that does not yet exist; a world in which the vast majority of people wake up every single morning inspired, feel safe wherever they are and end the day fulfilled by the work that they do. Simon is the author of multiple best-selling books including *Start With Why*, *Leaders Eat Last*, *Together is Better*, and *The Infinite Game*. \+ + + Website: [http://simonsinek.com/](http://simonsinek.com/) Leaderful: [https://simonsinek.com/leaderful](https://simonsinek.com/leaderful) Podcast: [http://apple.co/simonsinek](http://apple.co/simonsinek) Instagram: [https://instagram.com/simonsinek/](https://instagram.com/simonsinek/) Linkedin: [https://linkedin.com/in/simonsinek/](https://linkedin.com/in/simonsinek/) Twitter: [https://twitter.com/simonsinek](https://twitter.com/simonsinek) Facebook: [https://www.facebook.com/simonsinek](https://www.facebook.com/simonsinek)

May 19, 2026 59 min
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Tom Nash

Episode 224

Stop Telling Us Everything Happens for a Reason with Anti-Victim Tom Nash

We often comfort ourselves with the idea that things happen for a reason, or define our struggles as a test of strength. Tom Nash might ask you to reconsider. Tom is a speaker, former DJ, and globe-trotting advocate for agency, anti-fragility, and the radical idea that your worst moment might be your greatest asset — as he argued in his TED Talk, "The Perks of Being a Pirate.” He’s also the mind behind *Last Meal with Tom Nash* where he asks his guests what their last meal would be if the world ended tomorrow, and then actually cooks it for them. In our conversation, Tom shares how, at 19, a rare bacterial infection left him a quadruple amputee with a 2% chance of survival. And he'll tell you it's the best thing that ever happened to him. This isn’t just another conversation about resilience. It’s a deep dive into agency and the difference between a life that happens to you and one you actually choose. In this episode, we explore: ➡️ Why the story you tell yourself about your own life is the most powerful force in it ➡️ The difference between resilience and anti-fragility (and why it matters) ➡️ Tom’s framework for navigating adversity: The Artist, the Author, and the Alchemist ➡️ The counterintuitive reason why we actually need support networks ➡️ Why "everything happens for a reason" can be a trap (and the perspective that works better) ➡️ What your last meal choice reveals about what you're really searching for ➡️ Why the concept of being "self-made" is a dangerous illusion Tom joins me to ask a fundamental question: who is really holding the pen when it comes to your story? This… is *A Bit of Optimism*. \+ + + Watch the new season of Tom’s show *Last Meal with Tom Nash* and head to: [https://www.lastmealwithtomnash.com](https://www.lastmealwithtomnash.com/) Want more Tom? Check out his website: [https://www.tomnash.com](https://www.tomnash.com/) \+ + + Chapters ### Chapters - **00:00:00** Adversity Can Be The Best Thing You Experience - **00:03:45** Tom's Story: Contracting Meningococcal Disease - **00:07:47** The Gift of Agency: Choosing to Amputate - **00:16:18** The Artist, The Author, and The Alchemist: A Framework for Anti-Fragility - **00:20:28** The Alchemist: Turning Adversity Into Advantage - **00:23:52** Learning to Walk Again: The Momentum Metaphor - **00:26:57** The True Purpose of Support Networks - **00:34:33** Why 'Everything Happens for a Reason' Robs You of Agency - **00:47:37** The Last Meal Question: What Your Choice Reveals About Freedom - **00:42:23** Joel Robuchon: Leadership Through Teaching, Not Commanding - **00:58:34** The Problem With Inspirational Affirmations - **01:00:59** Stop Saying Everything Happens for a Reason \+ + + Simon is an unshakable optimist. He believes in a bright future and our ability to build it together. Described as “a visionary thinker with a rare intellect,” Simon has devoted his professional life to help advance a vision of the world that does not yet exist; a world in which the vast majority of people wake up every single morning inspired, feel safe wherever they are and end the day fulfilled by the work that they do. Simon is the author of multiple best-selling books including *Start With Why*, *Leaders Eat Last*, *Together is Better*, and *The Infinite Game*. \+ + + Website: [http://simonsinek.com/](http://simonsinek.com/) Leaderful: [https://simonsinek.com/leaderful](https://simonsinek.com/leaderful) Podcast: [http://apple.co/simonsinek](http://apple.co/simonsinek) Instagram: [https://instagram.com/simonsinek/](https://instagram.com/simonsinek/) Linkedin: [https://linkedin.com/in/simonsinek/](https://linkedin.com/in/simonsinek/) Twitter: [https://twitter.com/simonsinek](https://twitter.com/simonsinek) Facebook: [https://www.facebook.com/simonsinek](https://www.facebook.com/simonsinek) Simon’s books: The Infinite Game: [https://simonsinek.com/books/the-infinite-game/](https://simonsinek.com/books/the-infinite-game/) Start With Why: [https://simonsinek.com/books/start-with-why/](https://simonsinek.com/books/start-with-why/) Find Your Why: [https://simonsinek.com/books/find-your-why/](https://simonsinek.com/books/find-your-why/) Leaders Eat Last: [https://simonsinek.com/books/leaders-eat-last/](https://simonsinek.com/books/leaders-eat-last/) Together is Better: [https://simonsinek.com/books/together-is-better/](https://simonsinek.com/books/together-is-better/)

May 12, 2026 1 hr 2 min
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